{"id":19206,"date":"2021-02-08T16:33:02","date_gmt":"2021-02-08T23:33:02","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.newmexicopbs.org\/productions\/newmexicoinfocus\/?p=19206"},"modified":"2021-03-08T16:35:48","modified_gmt":"2021-03-08T23:35:48","slug":"field-trip-11-24-20","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.newmexicopbs.org\/productions\/newmexicoinfocus\/field-trip-11-24-20\/","title":{"rendered":"Field Trip | 11.24.20"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/anchor.fm\/growingforwardnm\/embed\/episodes\/Field-Trip--11-24-20-emt89i\" height=\"102px\" width=\"400px\" frameborder=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\"><\/iframe>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:30px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p>Going into a cannabis dispensary can be confusing. Not only do patients juggle the many strangely-named strains of the plant, but they also have to figure out how to ingest it. Do they smoke the bud? Use a topical cream? A wax concentrate? Well, this week on \u201cGrowing Forward,\u201d our crew grabbed their mics (and masks) for a field trip to a local Albuquerque dispensary &amp; manufacturing facility to answer some of these questions. Listen, as we talk to the brains behind the cannabis products that patients all around the state rely on!&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Episode Music:&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Christian Bjoerklund &#8211; &#8220;Hallon&#8221;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Poddington Bear &#8211; &#8220;Good Times&#8221;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Blue Dot Sessions \u2013 &#8220;Detailing&#8221;&nbsp;<br><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Growing Forward Logo Created By:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/katieconleyphotography.com\/\">Katherine Conley&nbsp;<\/a><br><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>*******&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;Growing Forward&#8221; is a collaboration between New Mexico Political Report and New Mexico PBS, and is funded through a grant from The New Mexico Local News Fund.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>FULL TRANSCRIPT<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>\u266a \u266a<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Eric Merryman: T<\/strong><strong>he initial efforts and ongoing efforts helped my mom. It brought her some peace. It brought her the ability to not be sick all the time.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Dominic Garcia: A<\/strong><strong> lot of folks, you know, they might have dabbled in the 70s or 80s. This might be, you know, a return to the use for pain relief. So, you know, the science of medical cannabis has come a long way.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: The science of medical cannabis has indeed come a long way, and that may leave many New Mexicans overwhelmed by all the different strains and interesting names, as well as their uses and the entire retail experience.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Andy Lyman: This week, we take a field trip to a local dispensary and a manufacturing facility to show you what they\u2019re like and the challenges these businesses face as new mexico again prepares to take up the issue of legalizing recreational-use cannabis.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>\u266a \u266a<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Andy Lyman: I&#8217;m Andy Lyman, Reporter with New Mexico Political Report.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Megan Kamerick: And I\u2019m Megan Kamerick, Correspondent with New Mexico PBS, and this is Growing Forward, a podcast dedicated to the cannabis industry in New Mexico. This project is also a collaboration between NMPBS and New Mexico Political Report.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Andy Lyman: The medical cannabis program has been around for years now in New Mexico, but it can still be daunting to navigate your way through the system after getting a medical cannabis card.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Megan Kamerick: That\u2019s right. And now there is new pressure for lawmakers in New Mexico to also approve the legalization of recreational-use cannabis. That\u2019s because Arizona voters approved an initiative legalizing recreational use just a few weeks ago. If New Mexico wants to capitalize on the revenue benefits of legalizing the drug, the time is definitely now.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Andy Lyman: And, if they\u2019re successful, that\u2019s a whole new group of people trying to find their way through the complicated maze of dispensaries, strains, doses and much more.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Megan Kamerick: That\u2019s why we headed out of the studio this week, to introduce you to that world and all its nuances.&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Andy Lyman: You know, Megan, I grew up watching PBS, especially Mr. Rogers\u2019 Neighborhood. Today\u2019s episode actually reminds me a little of when Mr. Rogers would take viewers to a factory or some other kind of field trip.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Megan Kamerick: It does sort of feel that way&#8230; Although I\u2019m trying to get the picture of Mr. Rogers going to the cannabis store out of my head. Anyway, a few weeks ago, we got a tour of an Albuquerque cannabis dispensary. We also got to see a manufacturing facility where a company makes extracts and edibles. Believe it or not, it really is similar to those field trips on Mr. Roger\u2019s Neighborhood, but instead of watching how crayons are made or seeing how cows are milked on a dairy farm, we got the lowdown on gummies, chocolate, honey extracts&#8230;. There\u2019s just a huge variety and honestly, Andy, I just had no idea.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>(traffic sounds)<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Andy Lyman: We are right out front of a dispensary in Albuquerque, called R. Greenleaf. We\u2019re right, sort of, Washington and Menaul area. And, it\u2019s actually part of a little strip. Looks like right next door there\u2019s a boot store. And, I\u2019m not sure what\u2019s at the end, but it\u2019s sort of unassuming. Did you know that this was here before?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Megan Kamerick: Not until you told me about it.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Andy Lyman: Yeah.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Megan Kamerick: i\u2019ve driven by it a million times. It\u2019s very non-descript.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Andy Lyman: The windows are, sort of, tinted in a way that\u2019s mirrored. You can\u2019t see inside. It\u2019s just part of, sort of, a little commercial stretch of Menaul, I\u2019d say.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>(door opens and closes)&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Andy Lyman: Megan, when we first walked in the door, you almost immediately noticed something different&#8230;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: Yeah, the smell&#8230; It was strong and very distinct \u2013 way more intense than being at a random concert.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Andy Lyman: It was very clear we had just walked into a dispensary, before we could even see the menu or display cases. But, visually, I wonder if anyone would know, from the outside, what\u2019s actually happening inside.&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: I definitely didn\u2019t know. I\u2019ve driven by that spot so many times. It\u2019s in a generic looking strip mall next to a boot store.&nbsp; But I guess that\u2019s by design, Andy?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Andy Lyman: It could be. I know some folks are concerned about security, but I think it also provides some normalcy to patients as well. Our tour guide that day was Dominic Garcia, the director of retail operations for Reynold Greenleaf and Associates. Listeners may remember that some dispensaries are under a management company. It may be a little confusing, but Reynold Greenleaf and Associates, a management company, manages R. Greenleaf, a cannabis producer.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: Dominic gave us a tour of an R. Greenleaf location, in sort of midtown Albuquerque. There\u2019s a counter with sales associates to help patients. And behind them is a small window to a room where the product is actually prepared. That room is locked and not open to the public \u2013 or to us. Employees hand the cannabis products through that window to the sales associates out front. Dominc says it\u2019s a little bit like Walgreen\u2019s or CVS.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Dominic Garcia: So, this particular dispensary, for us, is, we have a pharmacy model. So, essentially, it&#8217;d be, you know, what you would think of a traditional pharmacy. Patients come in, they can have a consultation with any of our peer educators and be able to help determine what medicine is best for them. With that being said, we do offer, our menu, which is live.&nbsp; It&#8217;s got, it&#8217;s pretty much real time, also. It&#8217;s on about a five-minute delay, if that. And that does connect to our mobile app, I\u2019m sorry, our website that you can look mobily on. And it does have rates and what&#8217;s available for any particular clinic.&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: That menu he\u2019s talking about is a huge electronic board hanging behind the sales counter. It sort of looks like a fast food menu. There are a handful of giant digital monitors, which Dominic said are updated in real time&#8230; Meaning that when they sell the last of a particular product, the system updates and takes the product off the screen.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Andy Lyman: We asked Dominic to describe what happens when a first time patient first walks in the door.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Dominic Garcia: S<\/strong><strong>o really, we just like to open the door with, what do you know about cannabis? A lot of folks, you know, they might have dabbled in the 70s or 80s. And, this might be, you know, a return to the use for pain relief. The science of medical cannabis has come a long way. It&#8217;s not the same kind of cannabis I was probably privy to when I was in college, that sort of thing. It&#8217;s a lot more potent and it&#8217;s just a valuable medicine for a lot of folks.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Andy Lyman: I<\/strong><strong>s there, is there any sort of experimenting, meaning that\u2026 because, if somebody hasn&#8217;t used it for 20 years, maybe you want to try a little bit of this or try some different levels of THC, the CBD?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Dominic Garcia: Y<\/strong><strong>eah, you know, a lot of times also the peer educator will ask about what their ailment is and then from there, they can help educate them from a point of also being a patient. So, again, none of our folks are really like nurse practitioners or anything to that effect. But, if someone has anxiety, they might be interested in indica. If someone just has, you know, motivation or they need help with focus, they might be leaning toward sativa. So really, it&#8217;s just about asking those questions and being able to help find that right product. Again, we always like especially with edibles or some concentrates, start slow, because you can always add more and you don&#8217;t ever want to get completely couch-locked or have an anxiety attack from, just over-consuming.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Megan Kamerick: As Dominic was showing us around the dispensary lobby, I spoke with Maria Chavez, who had just purchased some cannabis. She\u2019s been a patient for 10 years.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Maria Chavez: Y<\/strong><strong>es, and it helps my diabetes and my neuropathy. And I play basketball for the senior league. So, the doctor can&#8217;t believe that this stuff helped me play. I mean, I run and everything. I stay in shape. &nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Megan Kamerick: H<\/strong><strong>ow old are you? Can I ask?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Maria Chavez: I<\/strong><strong>&#8216;ll be 73. 10\/10.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Megan Kamerick: W<\/strong><strong>ow. So what kind of product do you use?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-black-color has-text-color\"><strong>Maria Chavez:<\/strong><strong> I use Sativa and then I use Indica at night to relax me.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Megan Kamerick: A<\/strong><strong>nd are you smoking it? Are you ingesting it?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Maria Chavez: I<\/strong><strong> smoke it.&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Megan Kamerick: A<\/strong><strong>nd what started this\u2026 this is ten years ago. So, tell me about how you started that process or that journey?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Maria Chavez: B<\/strong><strong>ecause I was hurting a lot and I was working. And then, it really got to me. And then my hands were bad because I worked at digital and then at intel. So, when I started smoking, it really helped. So that did it.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Megan Kamerick: Another thing I noticed right away is just the huge variety of products available and how each is designed to treat something different. This is light years away from the days of using a crushed beer can to make a bong.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Andy Lyman: And so, these here are\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Megan Kamerick: \u2026 chocolate bars.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Andy Lyman: \u2026 and over here is what you\u2019d call it, vape pen. So, it&#8217;s an oil liquid.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Dominic Garcia: Some of our edibles and topicals. So, we do offer salves, you know, for joint pain, headache rollers, suppositories.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Andy Lyman: I think maybe one thing that people don&#8217;t realize is that topicals maybe have a different, quite a different effect than consuming it or ingesting it, right?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Dominic Garcia: A lot of it, again, it&#8217;s probably not going to, have the, I use air quotes, high effect. Some topicals don&#8217;t really cross the blood barrier. So, it&#8217;s really just about the anti-inflammatory aspects of it.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: And is that, were those suppositories or were those injectibles?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Dominic Garcia: No, they\u2019re suppositories. So, again, for, any chronic pain, lower back pain, it&#8217;s a wonderful product.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: So, what have been some of the innovations with the medical cannabis program, in terms of different forms people can use? I had no idea there were so many\u2026 (laughs)<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Dominic Garcia: Yeah, I mean, I think it&#8217;s constantly evolving. And then it also, can vary based on how people like to consume and their tolerance levels. You do build up tolerance, so someone might you know, become a wax user, where there are different textures, also in that. So, it might be more like a sugar sauce or sometimes it could be almost like a brittle, which we call a shatter. So, little pieces broken off and then placed into a rig and smoked that way. So, it&#8217;s a little bit more intense, a little bit quicker on the uptake. But again, it just depends on where you are in your cannabis therapy.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Andy Lyman: Do you know what&#8217;s the, maybe we&#8217;ve already talked about this, the bigger seller for R. Greenleaf. I mean is it flowers?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Dominic Garcia: So, yeah, flowers. Flowers are, you know, our bread and butter, if you will. (undecipherable)<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Andy Lyman: And what the patient didn&#8217;t really get into when we talked to her, but I think maybe part of that is that it&#8217;s\u2026 and you mentioned hitting it fast. Hitting you faster, right. And an edible is going to take as long as your body takes to digest it, right?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Dominic Garcia: Right, and typically an edible is going to be processed through the liver, where the traditional flower might be through&#8230; Will be through the lungs. So, you know, edible can be a little bit more potent sometimes because the whole thing is being processed. You know, if you&#8217;re smoking, you do lose some on the exhale.<\/strong><strong><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Andy Lyman: But we don&#8217;t really have\u2026 we, as a society, don&#8217;t have like an equivalent to having a drink. Like, you can&#8217;t take a drink and it hits you like alcohol does. It&#8217;s going to take probably an hour or so\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Dominic Garcia: And, you know, if you have a full stomach versus an empty stomach and the amount that you consume.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: It&#8217;s not like, here, take <\/strong><strong>these two Ibuprofen<\/strong><strong>, it&#8217;s got two hundred milligrams each. It&#8217;s totally subjective\u2026 seems subjective.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Dominic Garcia: Well, it&#8217;s a little trial and error at the beginning, but once you start finding what medicines are working best for you, again, you can always add more, start slow. That&#8217;s a great piece of advice is just, you can always, you know, add more to it. But once you, you know, if you&#8217;re overmedicated, sometimes to just wait it out. You know what your tolerance levels are.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: We weren\u2019t able to get a tour of the back room where they actually dispense the cannabis. And instead of going to see a grow operation, we decided to go take a look at how plant material becomes extracts and edibles.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Jennifer Merryman: Oh, sure, t<\/strong><strong>his is our main building. This is our kitchen, and we&#8217;re going through our locked \u2018side b\u2019 entry. We have several different entries for employees\u2026\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Andy Lyman: That\u2019s Jennifer Merryman. She and her husband Eric own and operate Mountain Top Extracts, which is a medical cannabis manufacturing company.&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Megan Kamerick: It\u2019s another unassuming facility tucked away in the middle of an industrial area.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jennifer Merryman: A<\/strong><strong>nd, I\u2019ll grab Eric\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Andy Lyman: Y<\/strong><strong>ou have a very compelling story about how you got into this industry. You kind of have a personal family story\u2026&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Eric Merryman: F<\/strong><strong>ive or six years ago, my mother was diagnosed with stage four fallopian tube cancer, out of the blue. All I ever remember about her health was she was always in shape, walked, hiked regularly, ate well. So, this was quite a shock, of course, to all of us. We had always been raised kind of with alternative medicines. And so, we did a lot of different treatments with her. I had never heard about cannabis for the treatment of cancer or the treatment of the residual issues that come with, you know, people on chemo or radiation therapy. At that point, she had not done any chemotherapy. My son, who is living in Arizona at the time, called me and asked me if I had heard of a product called Rick Simpson\u2019s oil, and I hadn&#8217;t. And he said, \u201cwell, you know, you should you should do some research into it, dad. This is something that might help my nana.\u201d And so, I began that research.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Megan Kamerick: Eric said he went through the process to legally grow cannabis for his mother and began experimenting with what seemed to help her and started learning about how to extract beneficial substances from the plant. And, so began Eric\u2019s journey into the world of cannabis extraction.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Eric Merryman: O<\/strong><strong>nce we got the genetics and started cultivating the high CBD content strains, then it was like, \u201cOK, so how do I make this into a highly concentrated form of medicine?\u201d Then, that opens up the whole world to extractions. And, there&#8217;s several forms of extractions that exist and their use is common in our industry. My focus was on the preservation of those cannabinoids, terpenes and flavonoids from the moment that I harvested that plant until I put that oil into the capsule. My research in different extraction methods and solvents led me to light hydrocarbon solvents, which are, in our industry, we&#8217;re using butane, propane and isobutanes. Once I made that decision, then it opened up a whole other world in regards to the safety of that process, you know? And what does that take for me to make this medicine at home in a safe manner? So, not only the integrity of the medicine, but integrity of the extraction process. That&#8217;s where mountain top started.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Megan Kamerick: D<\/strong><strong>id you have a background in chemistry or anything? What was your background?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Eric Merryman: <\/strong><strong>(laughs) I do not have a background in chemistry. I&#8217;ve been a, primarily, a general contractor, tool bags on type of contractor, all of my life. I&#8217;ve always been very interested in renewable fuels and renewable energies and so about, I want to say it&#8217;s probably been 10 years ago, became very interested in biofuels, specifically biodiesel. I went to some classes up in Denver, both at, kind of a small cooperative level, as well as a <\/strong><strong>full scale<\/strong><strong> commercial-level, biofuels operation, because I had the intent of setting up a biodiesel facility here in New Mexico.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Andy Lyman: Listeners may have caught Eric\u2019s comments about safety, particularly with the extraction process. Several years back, employees of a Santa Fe-based manufacturer were severely injured in an explosion. One of the ways to extract THC from plant material is by using butane, which of course is highly flammable. Several weeks ago, there was a fire and more injuries at that same Santa Fe manufacturing site. To be clear, as we\u2019re recording this, the second instance is still under investigation. <\/strong><strong>&nbsp;<\/strong><strong><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>(repetitive drumming noise)<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: Why is it so loud?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Eric Merryman: That\u2019s an industrial grade solvent recovery pump. So, it\u2019s just got a big motor, big diaphragm pistons in it, and\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: That\u2019s why he has earplugs\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Eric Merryman: Yes. (laughs)<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: Eric says he worked closely with state officials to come up with a safe way to do those extractions. <\/strong><strong>&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Eric Merryman: M<\/strong><strong>ountain Top Extracts was the first class one, division one, approved in the state for indoor light hydrocarbon extraction. And what that means was, prior to us, everyone was required to do light hydrocarbon extraction outdoors. My argument to that, to the DOH was, how can you hold me to a food grade standard, but yet make me do this outside? Like, where else in the food industry does this exist? What happened was, I actually had to get involved with construction industries division, which is now primarily the LP gas division of the state, is the one that inspects light hydrocarbon extraction facilities. I don&#8217;t know if they do ethanol or CO2, but I do know for certain that they do the light hydrocarbon inspections. And, what happened was the department of health had actually contacted the state and said, \u201cHey, we need some help here. We don&#8217;t know what we&#8217;re looking at. You know, you guys have a gas division. We would really like your help.\u201d And so, it was perfect timing, because the first explosion in Santa Fe had just happened, like within six or nine months of us getting our license. And so, I was able to sit down with the state and actually help create the rules and regs for light hydrocarbon extraction in the state. And, the way that we worked together on that was, I had contacted the fire marshal out of Denver, which at that point in time, Denver had the highest standards in the industry for light hydrocarbon extraction. And so, the fire marshal sent me over those standards. And, we sat down with the state. And we went through them and we said, \u201cYou know, these are good.\u201d&nbsp; And so, between us, we came up with a really high standards for light hydrocarbon extraction, because there&#8217;s no reason that an explosion of that nature should occur in this industry.&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Andy Lyman: To put it plainly, this extraction process involves a solvent, usually butane. That strips the plant material of all of that stuff that cannabis patients want in their concentrated medicine. But here\u2019s eric again explaining it in much greater detail. <\/strong><strong>&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Eric Merryman: L<\/strong><strong>ight hydrocarbon extractions occur by keeping your light hydrocarbons in a liquid state, which requires subzero temperatures. Once it&#8217;s in a liquid state, now it can act as a stripping solvent for the cannabinoids, terpenes and flavonoids, as well as waxes, lipids, things of that nature. Not so much chlorophylls, because light hydrocarbons are very non-polar solvent. Basically, what&#8217;s done is, in that liquid state, you&#8217;re saturating the cannabis material in a pressure-rated column, if you will, that has been packed full of cannabis. Once the desirables are removed from the plant matter, which the light hydrocarbons are still in liquid form, it gets transferred over into what&#8217;s called a distillation chamber. And, what that distillation chamber does, is now you&#8217;re going to convert that liquid back into a gas. And so, that you can incorporate what&#8217;s called a recovery pump that will then move that vapor back into the original solvent tank, under subzero temperatures that it came from. It&#8217;s called a closed-loop system. And so, it turns it back into liquid for storage into the solvent vessel. So then, once the solvent is distilled out of the oil, up to probably 90, 95, 98-percent of that solvent is distilled off in that distillation chamber. Then you have your oil, with a little bit of residual solvent in there, that you then pour out into pyrex dishes. The oil then goes into it into a heated vacuum chamber, and it remains in that heated vacuum chamber for anywhere from three to&#8230; Three days to five weeks, depending on the finished product that the client has requested. And what that does is, it does two things. It removes any and all residual solvent, if that&#8217;s what your desired product is. And, I say that because the state allows 800 parts per million of residual solvent to remain in the medicine. Colorado allows 5000 parts per million. Mountain top extracts allows zero parts per million. If your desired effect is zero parts per million residual solvent, then you&#8217;ll leave that in that vacuum chamber until that&#8217;s achieved.&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>\u266a \u266a<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Andy Lyman: But, extraction is not the only thing they do at mountain top extracts. Operation Manager Aaron Cochola walks us through a packaging room and shows us the variety of different types of derivatives they use.<\/strong><strong><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Aaron Cochola: Yeah, and then one last thing, you can kind of see the differences between, this would be, kind of, considered a cooking oil. So, this is an edible oil. As you can see, it\u2019s a lot darker. Has a lot more of the fats and the lipids that eric was talking about earlier. This stuff is a lot more beneficial to ingest, you know, versus inhaling.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: What would you put that in?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Aaron Cochola: Into a gummy. So, this would be used to create the gummy, the hard candies and the lollies, or a topical. Something that would be either ingested or applied topically.&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: Aaron also showed us the results of that extraction method eric told us about. <\/strong><strong>&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Aaron Cochola: It\u2019s crystals. It\u2019s THC-a crystals, essentially, being formed in a pool of terpenes. So, it\u2019s a good mix of cannabinoids, for sure. But, it\u2019s all about colorance, color gradients, as far as terpenes have different colors to them as well. So, the different grade of, or the different amount of terpenes, and the ratios of them also affect the colors. It\u2019s all connected, really.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: So, you\u2019re putting that in and it forms into crystals eventually?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Aaron Cochola: We do, under pressure. So, like Eric had mentioned, using that heated vaccum. So, pressure forms diamonds.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: So, what do you with the crystals?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Aaron Cochola: Smoke them, inhale them.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: Oh, ok.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Aaron Cochola: So, this is, everything would literally go into a small little glass container. And then, using a very small amounts, you would vaporize it, essentially.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: Oh, ok. What flavor are those?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Employee: These are green apple.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>(candies dropped onto a tray)<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Andy Lyman: And then there\u2019s the kitchen, where Aaron says they can produce about 4-thousand edibles a day. <\/strong><strong>&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Aaron Cochola: As you can see here, that we use candy machines for filling the hard candies, the lollies and the gummies. We have just tons and tons of molds that we fill, so pretty much just jamming two of these machines all day long.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Andy Lyman: Can you tell us, because we haven\u2019t done this yet, all the types of products that you guys manufacture here, from just extracted material to edibles, all that other stuff? What do you guys make here?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Aaron Cochola: Yeah, so we actually, coming out of the <\/strong><strong>kitchen, we do gummies, hard candies, lollipops. We also make salves, tinctures too as well, like topicals. We are also creating a lot of concentrates. So, boy, we could go down the list of that, but all the different consistencies that you would do, like dabs, the sugar wax, the diamond sauce, the diamonds, vape cartridges too, as well. <\/strong><strong><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Andy Lyman: I want to touch on one thing a lot of people probably don\u2019t realize and likely never considered&#8230; Mountain top extracts only has a license to manufacture, whereas some other companies are more vertically integrated.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Megan Kamerick: What that means is that companies like mountain top, stand alone manufacturers, rely on supply from producers who are licensed by the state to grow cannabis. Then, Mountain Top sends the finished product back to the producer and onto a dispensary shelf.<\/strong><strong><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Andy Lyman: Eric says he\u2019d like to see a change in licensing that would allow manufacturers to grow their own cannabis.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Eric Merryman: S<\/strong><strong>o, having control from seed to finished product is extremely critical. I don&#8217;t know what percentage, but I suspect that most people have gotten into this industry for the fast money. There are some that haven&#8217;t made the decision based on that, and I really respect those companies and those individuals, because it takes a lot more to do it right. If I&#8217;m relying upon a cultivator to supply me with material, I don&#8217;t know what their objectives are, meaning that, I don&#8217;t know why they got into the business. I don&#8217;t know why they&#8217;re doing what they&#8217;re doing to wind up with this finished product, to supply me with to make oil, to feed into the dispensaries. If it&#8217;s about how many crops can I get in a year, how many pounds per plant in that crop can I get in a year, and that&#8217;s all their focus, then it&#8217;s highly likely that there&#8217;s going to be contaminants in that plant material.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: Eric says Mountain Top takes an extra step to examine plant material before the extraction process even starts.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Eric Merryman:<\/strong><strong> We do quality control in a couple of different ways. The first thing that we do is, when we receive product, we put it under a microscope and we do a grading system and that will immediately tell us, how this product&#8217;s been treated, at least from the cultivation and harvest standpoint. It will tell us if there&#8217;s molds or mildews in there. It will not tell us if there&#8217;s pesticides or heavy metals. The way we do quality control on water-based pesticides and heavy metals is in a proprietary filtering system that we&#8217;ve developed here. Some of the oil-based treatments are hard to identify. Actually, almost impossible to identify just by looking at the plant material under the microscope. There&#8217;s some things that may hint towards something was done to this that doesn&#8217;t seem right. And, that will typically have to do with the coloring of the trichomes, maybe some slight surface-coating, just some things that typically don&#8217;t relate to a healthy plant or harvest. What we&#8217;ve had happen a couple of times was, after the initial extraction, you can see, basically a rainbow sheen on top of the oil, which typically relates to a petroleum-based product. If and when that happens, we will immediately contact the cultivator. We won&#8217;t release that medicine. <\/strong><strong><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick:<\/strong><strong> It seems really problematic. Like, how do you&#8230; Do you contract with very specific cultivators? Like, your supply chain seems to be key to your profit?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Eric Merryman: A<\/strong><strong>bsolutely. That&#8217;s one of the things about not allowing manufacturers to cultivate for their own extraction, which we are one of the very few. There may be one other state in the union that doesn&#8217;t allow the manufacturers to cultivate. So, yes, we&#8217;re completely subjective to the cultivators of the state. We&#8217;ve been in the business long enough to know the top tier cultivators, if you will, or at least those not adding the petroleum treatments, the soil treatments that can become systemic to the plant. So, it&#8217;s not just your topical or foliar applications. There&#8217;s stuff uptaking, systemically, by this plant, that wind up in the finished product. So, those things are really critical to us. Unfortunately, we have zero control over what they&#8217;re using on their plants or what they&#8217;re communicating with us in regards to the cultivation and or treatment in those plants.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: That\u2019s crazy.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Andy Lyman: Marketing is also a challenge for companies like mountain top. They can\u2019t sell their products directly to patients, so Aaron says they have to market to the producers instead. <\/strong><strong><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Aaron Cochola: We have to convince them to purchase, to turn their valuable material into this product and then put it into their store to try and sell to those patients. So, it requires us creating promo material, product cards and informing their tenders, bud tenders of what the product is. So, then they can actually translate that, then, to the patient. So, when the patient says, \u201cI saw something on Instagram or I heard my friend has this,\u201d they can come in and ask about it and, kind of, try and get that relay of information. Empowering tenders and bud tenders has been probably one of our main focuses, as well with the education material, you know, kind of giving them a little more power to communicate with patients.&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>\u266a \u266a<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Andy Lyman: Growing Forward is a collaboration between New Mexico PBS and New Mexico Political Report, thanks to a grant from the New Mexico Local News Fund.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: Our producers are Kevin McDonald and Bryce Dix. Bryce also does the editing and Kevin is Executive Producer at NMPBS. Matthew Reichbach is the Editor at New Mexico Political Report.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-text-color\"><strong>Andy Lyman: Join us next time as we wrap things up and discuss some of the issues we didn\u2019t get to so far in season 1. We\u2019ll also lay the groundwork for the upcoming debate over legalizing recreational-use cannabis in New Mexico during next year\u2019s legislative session.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Megan Kamerick: Be sure to subscribe to \u201cGrowing Forward\u201d wherever you get your podcasts. And, while you\u2019re there, be sure to leave us a review. It really helps.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>\u266a \u266a<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Going into a cannabis dispensary can be confusing. Not only do patients juggle the many strangely-named strains of the plant, but they also have to figure out how to ingest it. Do they smoke the bud? Use a topical cream? A wax concentrate? Well, this week on \u201cGrowing Forward,\u201d our crew grabbed their mics (and&hellip;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":14,"featured_media":19207,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[6742],"tags":[2550,6817,6806,5968,3320,6818,868,2473,738,1012,2547,1023,2344,6802,6807,1147],"class_list":["post-19206","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-forward-podcast","tag-andy-lyman","tag-cannabis-dispensaries","tag-cannabis-in-new-mexico","tag-cannabis-industry","tag-cannabis-legalization","tag-cannabis-manufacturing","tag-medical-cannabis","tag-megan-kamerick","tag-new-mexico","tag-new-mexico-pbs","tag-new-mexico-political-report","tag-nm-political-report","tag-nmpbs","tag-recreational-use-cannabis","tag-recreational-use-cannabis-2","tag-social-justice"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.3 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Field Trip | 11.24.20 - New Mexico In Focus<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newmexicopbs.org\/productions\/newmexicoinfocus\/field-trip-11-24-20\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Field Trip | 11.24.20 - New Mexico In Focus\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Going into a cannabis dispensary can be confusing. Not only do patients juggle the many strangely-named strains of the plant, but they also have to figure out how to ingest it. Do they smoke the bud? Use a topical cream? A wax concentrate? Well, this week on \u201cGrowing Forward,\u201d our crew grabbed their mics (and&hellip;\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.newmexicopbs.org\/productions\/newmexicoinfocus\/field-trip-11-24-20\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"New Mexico In Focus\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2021-02-08T23:33:02+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2021-03-08T23:35:48+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/www.newmexicopbs.org\/productions\/newmexicoinfocus\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/02\/GFEp9.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1280\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"720\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Myah Wilmarth\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Myah Wilmarth\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"24 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"NewsArticle\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.newmexicopbs.org\\\/productions\\\/newmexicoinfocus\\\/field-trip-11-24-20\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.newmexicopbs.org\\\/productions\\\/newmexicoinfocus\\\/field-trip-11-24-20\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Myah Wilmarth\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.newmexicopbs.org\\\/productions\\\/newmexicoinfocus\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/1e9e7899d475db7fec255f4def0fecc9\"},\"headline\":\"Field Trip | 11.24.20\",\"datePublished\":\"2021-02-08T23:33:02+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2021-03-08T23:35:48+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.newmexicopbs.org\\\/productions\\\/newmexicoinfocus\\\/field-trip-11-24-20\\\/\"},\"wordCount\":5494,\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.newmexicopbs.org\\\/productions\\\/newmexicoinfocus\\\/field-trip-11-24-20\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.newmexicopbs.org\\\/productions\\\/newmexicoinfocus\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2021\\\/02\\\/GFEp9.jpg\",\"keywords\":[\"andy lyman\",\"Cannabis Dispensaries\",\"cannabis in new Mexico\",\"cannabis industry\",\"cannabis legalization\",\"Cannabis Manufacturing\",\"medical cannabis\",\"megan kamerick\",\"New Mexico\",\"New Mexico PBS\",\"new mexico political report\",\"NM Political Report\",\"NMPBS\",\"Recreational Use Cannabis\",\"recreational-use cannabis\",\"social justice\"],\"articleSection\":[\"Growing Forward Podcast\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.newmexicopbs.org\\\/productions\\\/newmexicoinfocus\\\/field-trip-11-24-20\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.newmexicopbs.org\\\/productions\\\/newmexicoinfocus\\\/field-trip-11-24-20\\\/\",\"name\":\"Field Trip | 11.24.20 - New Mexico In Focus\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.newmexicopbs.org\\\/productions\\\/newmexicoinfocus\\\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.newmexicopbs.org\\\/productions\\\/newmexicoinfocus\\\/field-trip-11-24-20\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.newmexicopbs.org\\\/productions\\\/newmexicoinfocus\\\/field-trip-11-24-20\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.newmexicopbs.org\\\/productions\\\/newmexicoinfocus\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2021\\\/02\\\/GFEp9.jpg\",\"datePublished\":\"2021-02-08T23:33:02+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2021-03-08T23:35:48+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.newmexicopbs.org\\\/productions\\\/newmexicoinfocus\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/1e9e7899d475db7fec255f4def0fecc9\"},\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.newmexicopbs.org\\\/productions\\\/newmexicoinfocus\\\/field-trip-11-24-20\\\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/www.newmexicopbs.org\\\/productions\\\/newmexicoinfocus\\\/field-trip-11-24-20\\\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.newmexicopbs.org\\\/productions\\\/newmexicoinfocus\\\/field-trip-11-24-20\\\/#primaryimage\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.newmexicopbs.org\\\/productions\\\/newmexicoinfocus\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2021\\\/02\\\/GFEp9.jpg\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.newmexicopbs.org\\\/productions\\\/newmexicoinfocus\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2021\\\/02\\\/GFEp9.jpg\",\"width\":1280,\"height\":720,\"caption\":\"Exterior view of R. 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